I have a lot of deep respect for the Eastern Orthodox Church, as the sheer beauty and mysticism of their liturgical rituals seems to bind the community together, young and old. In particular, Slavonic chant sends a shiver down my spine, and helps me to realise that one of the most important functions of serious-minded religion is to provide people with meaningful aesthetic experience (enchantment), where a sense of the divine may be felt rather than just thought about.
Below there is a short video excerpt capturing a little of the beauty of Orthodox chant on the steps of St. Mary Magdalene's Cathedral:
Really hope this music makes you feel the way I do when I listen to it. Of course, I get the same kind of effect when I'm listening to Gregorian chant at an Old Latin (Tridentine) Mass or the Slavonic Liturgy at a Ukrainian Catholic church. For me, genuine prayer is often done through these beautiful forms of singing, and it saddens me that the aesthetic spiritual dimension seems to have been taken out of many forms of Western Christianity, most noticeably post-Vatican II Catholicism.
I once went to Salisbury cathedral Pat and heard Grimethorpe Colliery band play. The music wasn't very religious yet the collectivity of the musicians and the buildings sent shivers down my spine. Perhaps that is all religious experience is; collective singing or music playing? I dunno Pat. Just a thought. I must say the video does sound amazingly beautiful.
ReplyDeleteFor me, Dave, things like Gregorian or Slavonic chant are many levels above collective singing, even if they're just done by a congregation rather than a well-trained choir.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I remember, Gregorian chant is something like a synthesis of ancient Jewish; Roman; Greek; and Gallican chants, thus, it has been formed from Classical antiquity. For me, this in itself strongly distinguishes it from the putrid politically 'correct' and mass (lumpen)proletariat anti-culture on offer today.
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ReplyDeleteI must get my eyes tested Pat. This morning I wrote 'death' instead of 'deaf'and this afternoon I missed out the buildings 'acoustics'. Sorry about that.
ReplyDeleteI am obviously totally out of my depth and I have never experienced the Gregorian Chant. I used to think the same about the charismatic movement. Now I think it was probably just like going to a great rock concert with an incredible atmosphere. Didn't mean to touch a nerve Pat. Great photographs!!
You've not touched any nerve, Dave.
ReplyDeleteI think that I may've possibly deleted one of your messages by mistake, as I thought I'd repeated my own message. If that's the case, I'm sorry, Dave, you know I'm not great with computers, and you worked a miracle to get me on here in the first place.
Got to admit that the charismatic movement has never really appealed to me. Had the JWs at the door today, and had some trouble (only metaphorical) getting shut of them when my dinner had just cooked and I was starving. The JWs have also never really appealed to me. It's the branches of Christianity that have the aesthetics that I find most interesting, as they seem to offer a deeper sensory/almost organic-type experience.
Hi Pat, You're blog looks excellent, you are very computer able.
ReplyDeleteWe had the JWs the other day. Told me that 1914 was a special year and our lord is working on the earth, right now. I only let them in because of the rural isolation. Don't think they will be getting in again.
The Charismatic movement seemed to play on the emotions. One minute you would have a 'mountain top' experience from the service (concert) and then you went home and went on a downer for days. Think the 'happy, clappy'experience, is very appealing to students but not very good for people wanting your deeper sense-organic experience.
I'll be back later. See you Pat.
Hi Dave, thanks for the comments.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever attended Sung Evensong at one of the Anglican cathedrals, Dave? I'm only asking, because I sat down and listened to it a few times in Canterbury Cathedral, and would view it as the Anglican equivalent of what I'm trying to talk about here.
I just feel that this kind of spiritual experience is based on beautiful music helping to carry (TS Eliot's concept of) 'aesthetic emotion' into people's everyday lives and sensory experience. Thus, this may suggest a more long-lasting integrative experience to the 'up-and-down' process that you mention. Of course, for suggesting this, I'd get crucified for being in 'false consciousness' by a variety of leftist ideologies here.
I have not attended Evensong in an Anglican cathedral Pat. I have been to ordination services in Manchester cathedral though and experienced the choir. I also think that a buildings acoustics enhance the music in a similar way that a powerful public address system does with an headline band.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you can trust so called 'spiritual emotions and people need that more long-lasting experience that you talk about.
Funnily enough I was reading about Thomas Hardys 'Under the Greenwood tree' yesterday. Hardy wrote it to reflect on the Church of England's introduction of the church organ and the 'professional' organist to replace the rustic rabble otherwise called the'church choir'. Believe there is a recent film been made of Under The Greenwood Tree?
What are you left with if you believe in 'false consciousness?'
The void Dave, give me the 'false consciousness' any day of the week. How about you?
ReplyDeleteNot sure Pat. I am not daft enough to say God doesn't exist but I often feel like the Wayne Hussey (Mission) quote:
ReplyDelete"I believe in God but he doesn't believe in me."
I am more concerned with Environmental issues these days, than I am about my own spirituality. Yet I wish there was a light at the end of the tunnel and believe that there is a better place than Earth.
Great blog Pat.
I would be careful with the whole Environmental movement, Dave. For me, there have always been environmental disasters even back when people were cavemen.
ReplyDeleteI also find that the Environmentalist fad often comes wrapped up with some kind of 'New Age' or pagan religious agenda. Admittedly, the latter can be interesting if it deals with, for example, genuine Red Indian (Native American) spirituality e.g. I remember reading that the Shoshone have about 8 religious-type behavioural/moral rules that mirror the 10 Commandments. Also read that many Red Indian and other indigenous tribes from all over the world have remarkably similar accounts of the Flood.
One other reservation I have about the Environmentalist worldview is that it seems quite elitist e.g. I've never seen that many working-class people involved in it.
In general, I think we're now involved in some kind of complex (post-)postmodern world where the Environmentalist movement are just one of many alluring and competing sideshows. However, for me, there are far more interesting sideshows than this one.
I am not involved with any environmental organizations myself Pat. I just write and comment about the way our beautiful world is being destroyed by our fellow human beings.
ReplyDeleteIt dismays me that there are so few Christian environmentalists active in preserving God's Eden: Earth. I often see churches on Sundays with lots of cars parked outside and there seems to be no talk from the pulpits about Christians being ecological.
Think you raise an excellent point about the Red Indians Pat. Think you could develop that a lot further and highlight the genocide and disregard of their culture and religion by the early settlers in North America. I didn't know they had accounts about the'Flood'?
Sooner or later man will destroy the world and we have got to try and make the world a safer and more environmentally friendly world for everybody. Early Celtic Christians in Ireland like Saint Finbarr at Gougane Barra lived in perfect harmony with nature. I don't understand why Christians can't care about the environment.
I think that not many Christians get involved in ecological issues, because the ecological movement or fad, whatever you want to call it, has been hijacked by a mixture of New Age seekers; pagan 'religious' people; and dare I say it, politically-'correct' nerds. Now, these images may well be stereotypes, but this is the way a lot of people view the Environmentalist lobby (of course, who's to say that there isn't some or even a lot of truth in stereotypes).
ReplyDeleteAlso, in the history books, I've never really heard about cars and such things causing the Ice Age. In fact, many books talk about extreme weather conditions naturally coming and going throughout (pre-industrial) history.
Just for the record, Dave, I also don't like too many cars and too much pollution, I just don't like the Environmentalist side show. In fact, I believe that this ideologically-'inspired' sideshow puts many everyday people off listening to ecological issues.
The same stereotypes could be said about any religious group Pat. Yes you can get your loony fringe Environmentalists but so do a lot of religions. The churches need to move with the times or they will die out or get left behind. Only the other day the church of England voted against women Bishops. It's only a matter of time before these so called Christians are ruled to be discriminatory and they will have to face the consequences. I used to love the Church of England but now I see why only 3 percent of the population attend regular worship.
ReplyDeleteAbout the history books Pat. Most Christians and Jews believe that the world is less than ten thousand years old. Some even take Adam and Eve to be literally true, chapter and verse. Others believe in Evolution. Yet its strange how we have stopped evolving. Most extreme weather conditions in the bible, like the flood for instance, are said to have been caused by God.
The end of the earth is predicted in the bible. Perhaps 'Global warming' is a sign of this?
Finally (promise I will look at your new post) I believe that people used to go to church to pray for a good harvest and good weather. Perhaps now that people no longer go. God is sending divine retribution or 'Global Warming?'
Hope I have not offended you Pat? It's great to communicate.
Christianity made to conform with political-'correctness', which for me is the most totalitarian ideology the world has ever seen or known, is not Christianity. Having women bishops has never had anything to do with real historical Christianity, it's just a politically 'correct' construct.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what's wrong with discriminating between good and bad (dare I call it, evil). Thankfully, the world I come from doesn't consider such things as women and homosexual bishops.
Most Christians I know (Catholic and Orthodox - by far the world's biggest two denominations) either accept the evolution theory; believe in some kind of complicated creationist theory which half takes on board evolution theory; or are just ambiguous about the topic as it's not worth the time of day thinking about it. Why should evolution theory be a threat to religion anyway? You don't have to be a brain surgeon to view the Creation story figuratively as an allegory without any serious repercussions for religion.
The types of Christianity you refer to Dave, the Pentecostals and Evangelicals are the fringes of Christianity, and to some degree the Anglican church may be viewed as now moving towards semi-mainstream status.
Thus, I think that to experience the non-fringes of Christianity, you have to engage with things like Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.